LitfestTo continue the blogging structure of the story, we thought we’d ask Adorna & Desiderus’ creators, Jenn Ashworth and Tolu Ogunlesi, a few questions via our blog – this way if anyone else want’s to weigh in, ask questions, make comments then you can …
So, for starters: How much did the form affect the plot? And how satisfied are you with the structure and development of the story?
The form affecting the plot? I suppose from the very begining Tolu and I were interested in creating conflict across two blogs, with two characters and expanding the conflict by using the comments forms on both blogs as a kind of sub-plot. The aim was to get in as many points of view as possible – something that to me, captures the chattering, noisy, opinionated nature of the blogsosphere. What was interested was the fact that using blogging technology (as well as facebook, email etc) to create a story ‘live’ felt, at times, more like acting than writing.
And satisfied with the structure and the development?
Well, I suppose our readers have more right to answer that question than we do, but I do think we started off more slowly than I’d have liked – things seemed to develop a lot once we got going, so for me a lot of the plot seemed crammed into the final week and a half of the project. I also think it’s a shame that we didn’t get more of our readers commenting and interacting with us and the cast of characters we had invented – I think we were both hoping for something very collaborative, but instead it felt, as I have said, quite performed.
Do you think that because you were targetting this project at readers who were perhaps new to blogs and commenting that they weren’t sure if they could or should join in or not?
The thing I was most satisfied with about the story was the way that Tolu and I worked together – we have very different styles, but seemed to get each other’s ideas on theme and tone very well – that was the most enjoyable part of the work for me. That, and trying on Adorna’s dress, that is.
Comment by Jenn — December 12, 2008 @ 2:25 pm
How much did the form affect the plot?
It was weird, and very interesting of course, to see the original (pre-blogging) plot outline change in parts when the blog went live. Under the influence of the “interactivity” demanded by the form (two separate blogs owned by two different individuals), the story had to abandon sureness and assume a ‘tentative’ existence. It had to leave the realms of an ordinary tale (the kind that you would narrate/publish in an online magazine), and take on a ‘call-and-response’ format. I like to think it became a 3D creation.
Adorna and Desiderus had to react to each other. Initially of course, the blogs were independent of each other, as we were interested in establishing identities / personalities for each person. Then as time went on each had to ‘confront’ the other, make references and link to the ‘other blog’. The challenge was to have them react without straying too much from the voices and personalities we had established.
We had to constantly cope with being constrained by the fact that this story could not be developed in the traditional way. We had to respect the demands and boundaries of blogger.com.
Looking back, I think I may safely say that this story was written by four people – Jenn, Adorna, Tolu and Desiderus; and one ’software’ (blogger)
Using the comments pages to advance the story and include details was a very exciting discovery for us, and it provided an alternative (and much welcome) template for the story.
How satisfied am I with the structure and development of the story?
Within the circumstances, we certainly tried our best (no immodesty intended) (smiles). I recall Jenn writing (on her blog) about how, in all her previous collaborative projects, she had sought partners with whom she’s got a “similar style or outlook”. But in this case, we didn’t know about each other’s existence until we started plotting the story, we have never met, never even spoken on phone, never even yahoo-messengered. All we’ve done is bombard each other’s boxes with emails (now only my ‘rejected works’ folder dwarfs my ‘Jenn’ folder in size).
There were times when we panicked that the story was going to spiral hopelessly and embarrassingly out of control, and then a flurry of emails would follow…
Jenn and I plotted more than we eventually included, we had very detailed plots as well as background material at the beginning, but in the heat of battle we had to prune and discard and cut. I wish we somehow had a way to include some of that fine material – location-setting, extra characters, etc…
Maybe someday, we’ll get a chance to put all that in… perhaps when Adorna and Desi are retirees / pensioners…
Comment by Tolu — December 15, 2008 @ 5:53 pm
I love the idea of working on a story that includes some of the stuff we had to leave out – the limit on the word count and frequency of posting was difficult to stick to, especially as we’d departed from the brief slightly by creating two blogging characters and in effect doubling the output. What surprised me was how much we invented once the research stage had passed and we’d gone live. As I remember, the Broomington subplot was a very late addition… Tolu, I mentioned briefly our different working styles. Perhaps now might be a good time to mention the Table…
Comment by Jenn — December 16, 2008 @ 12:44 am
I love the idea of working on a story that includes some of the stuff we had to leave out – the limit on the word count and frequency of posting was difficult to stick to, especially as we’d departed from the brief slightly by creating two blogging characters and in effect doubling the output. What surprised me was how much we invented once the research stage had passed and we’d gone live. As I remember, the Broomington subplot was a very late addition…
Tolu, I mentioned briefly our different working styles. Perhaps now might be a good time to mention the Table…
Comment by Jenn — December 16, 2008 @ 12:47 am
I find your views about you acting (rather than writing) and the story being 3D really interesting. Which maybe explains why the structure isn’t traditional in that it has a wider, slower start than you’d expect from a short story.
And of course the comments also broadened the story, although I was glad that they didn’t sweep it off its feet completely, as I’ve read in other online fiction. The comments set a larger context, gave that ‘chattering’ sense of the blogasphere you mentioned, Jenn. I suspect many readers didn’t realise they could add their comments, and as you say probably were quite new to the blogging business anyway. Which is why we wanted to give it ago.
I’m interested to know (given your saying that much of the invention occurred after the research) how much the comments left affected the plot?
Comment by flax — December 18, 2008 @ 3:32 pm
Well for me, the idea of Adorna being a glamourous, sucessful figure started to unravel a little as soon as Socrates Adams-Florou – a fellow blogger and writer – invented a stalking character and joined in the story. It all became quite a lot seedier once he’d weighed in with his invitations to literary club lunches – and maybe gave me a hint of what Adorna’s real life was like, rather than the life she imagined for herself and advertised on her blog
I think I always imagined her as a very polished person – and someone who’d use the blog soley as an advertising tool. One plug after another would have got boring very quickly and it was the comments from readers who’d decided to weigh in on the side of Desiderus that brought out a much shriller and more vindictive version of her – something she’d have preferred to keep hidden.
I also think the comments gave the whole project a little bit more unpredictability than it might have had otherwise. While it was clear for a whle that Adorna was the ‘baddie’, she and Desiderus switched places almost completley towards the end of the project – he was almost as bad as she was, and I think that was inspired at least in part by all the new fans Desiderus gained from his side of things.
Maybe all that fame went to his head, just like it went to Adorna’s!
Comment by Jenn — December 18, 2008 @ 5:44 pm
Jenn, you said:
“While it was clear for a whle that Adorna was the ‘baddie’, she and Desiderus switched places almost completely towards the end of the project – he was almost as bad as she was…”
Right!
The story started out as a ‘good’ vs ‘bad’ / ‘true (& unsuccessful) artist’ vs ‘pseudo (& successful) artist’, but I was interested in getting those lines blurred as time went on.
As Jenn points out, Desiderus’ original high moral ground began to slip from beneath him, he seemed to be enjoying the viciousness he was getting better at doling out, and the blogging began to push his fiction aside.
And I think it got to a point where his self-righteousness began to get irritating and quite overtly laughable…
Comment by Tolu — December 19, 2008 @ 2:20 pm
THE TABLE
As the emails flew back and forth between Sweden and England (even though it might be safer to assume there are no such addresses/locations on the internet) we decided to “tabulate”.
This involved the creation of a ‘plotting-table’ with the following columns:
DATE
ADORNA
DESIDERUS
EXTRAS (pictures posted, links made etc)
In that table we attempted to summarise the (brief) lives (and the intersections thereof) of Adorna and Desiderus.
So the table went back and forth between us and got filled quickly, “overfilled” in some cases – it seemed better to err on the side of over-plotting…
It’s very interesting now to compare the final table with the actual story… what got left out, what sneaked in…
The table actually helped to calm us down in moments of panic; made it easier for us to believe we were in control… even if Adorna and Desi were actually the ones in control…
Comment by Tolu — December 24, 2008 @ 1:03 pm
The table… do you usually write like that Tolu?
I never plan stories or even the novels I have written in such detail. I’m more of a go with the flow kind of writer, which usually means I end up with big messy first drafts I spend a long time editing.
I worried that the table would take the fun out of the project, but I also knew that because this was a commissioned project and would be written ‘live’ that we had to get it right and there wasn’t the chance to play and mess about as I like to in my own stories.
And I think it worked out okay. I still had fun, and there were still plenty of surprises along the way. I notice when when we did deviate or ignore the table that it was usually me springing a late-night brain wave on you after I’d already chucked it into the story. Sorry about that.
Comment by Jenn Ashworth — December 28, 2008 @ 5:38 pm
No, the table is not ‘modus operandi’ or standard operating procedure for me. It only offered its services during this project when the number of emails (and plans and ideas and edits) flying back and forth between us started to seem overwhelming
I’m also a go with the flow writer, having come to realise that almost all plans made in the comfort of my ‘head’ will unravel once introduced to a blank computer screen…
I don’t plot characters or their traits in any charts or tables, I just set them free in my head and watch them grow even madder outside…
And, yes, you never failed to amaze me with your late-night brain waves…
(Apologise to the TABLE, not to me…)
Comment by Tolu — December 29, 2008 @ 9:07 pm
Re Late night brain waves:
I always find that when I sit down at my desk and screw myself up to the event of writing, all my inspiration and inclination totally disapears. I almost need to catch my writing self unawares and often the best ideas come to me while I’m ironing my clothes for the next day, or brushing my teeth.
It seems like you work in the same way, but we both had to go into unfamiliar territory and be a lot more demanding of ourselves for this comissioned, timed piece. How do you think the discipline of that affected you?
I don’t think I’ll use a table again, but for me, it certainly gave me a lot more faith in my ability to come up with something on time, to a deadline and in a team – all things I was very wary about being able to achieve but would be more willing to seek out as a writing oportunity now we have completed this project sucessfully.
Comment by Jenn — December 30, 2008 @ 12:51 pm
I wondered about “Broomington” ! I had great fun reading both blogs. Well done.
Do you think it would have made a difference (comments, people participating, etc) if people thought both blogs were “real” and not fiction?
Comment by waffarian — December 30, 2008 @ 2:10 pm
What do you mean… they were real, weren’t they?
Thank you Waffarian. I’m glad you enjoyed reading the blogs – I certainly enjoyed your contribution!
I wondered about your question myself and one of the things I’d do differently if I could do this project again would be to take a much less tongue in cheek stance on the characters and try to make them as believable and blended into the blogging world as possible. I think given a much longer time-span (we were given around a month, and extended that slightly to finish the story) you could create a character and infiltrate all kinds of blogging and social networks – I think Adorna is nearly there because I don’t think *all* of the people trying to network with her, invite her to events etc on Facebook really do realise she’s a fictional character, although maybe that says more for the shallowness of social networking than it does for the reality of her character. There’s a great potential for satire there – and literature has a long and distinguished history of people pretending to be other than they are, laying claim to stories or arrangements of words that are not their own, and generally causing mischief from the relative safety of a nom-de-plume. All stories are a kind of trickery, aren’t they?
I’d love to do that, although I’m almost certain that somewhere in the blogosphere someone will already be doing that – it would only be a variation of what all of us are already doing. How truthful are any of us in our blogs? Is it even possible to present a real person using words, given the tendency of language to fictionalise anything it comes into contact with?
This is a pet topic of mine, as anyone who’s read my blog will already know, and one of the reasons I was so attracted to the playfulness of this project. I know unreliability is something Tolu is interested in too, so I’m leave off now and let him answer your question.
Comment by Jenn Ashworth — December 31, 2008 @ 3:40 pm
It was an early concern of mine that both characters were unbelievable, but as you rightly point out, Jenn, they do fit perfectly in the hyperreality of the blogosphere. And it’s great that they are so totally different in characterisation and story from other flax publications (not mentioning the obvious form) – for me this is another mark of its success.
So thanks, again, for your enthusiasm with the project and building it out beyond the blog.
Comment by Sarah — January 9, 2009 @ 2:49 pm